back to county council home page

Volusia County Tourist Development Council
Meeting Minutes
September 26, 2002 - 9:00 a.m.

Others in attendance:

Frank Gummey, Charlene Weaver, Rick Hamilton, Dana M. Smith, Jim Wachtel, Bob Davis, George D. Anderson, JoLynn Deal, Sally Gardiner, Valerie Whitney, Sharon Mock, Peter Alutto, and Jan Edwards.

Chairman Big John called meeting to order at 9:05 a.m.

Big John: We all know each other and we know the folks in the audience, so I am not going to introduce everybody. First order of business, Mr. Gummy is here under protest, so let’s hear from him first.

Frank Gummey: No, I am glad to be, this means that I got to work late, but I do have a meeting at 10 o’clock in DeLand. So, Big John was kind enough to let me go first and I will leave after my report and it’s not in a peak or huff that I’ll be leaving. He asked that I update you on the parking garage. Two things happened this week: Number 1, The Volusia Redevelpment Parking Corporation met Monday afternoon and approved the re-financing of the garage and also approved, appointed the County of Volusia as the corporation’s agent for Central in all purposes in regard to the garage. The county and Rick Hamilton will be responsible for administration on contract with management of Central Parking. The county will approve budgets, set rates, and so forth. So the parking corporation will become a relatively inactive owner. They will perform the annual audit and continue their corporate existence and that is contemplated to be the extent of their role. Yesterday morning, the County Council unanimously approved the re-financing. It involved a lot of negotiations and ultimately a lot of contributions to the solution by all the parties involved and what it does, is put in place a stable structure that will, I think, insure that the garage will operate without any interruption or dramatic crises that we have been through in the last few months. It will operate to the benefit of the public and public interest. It also will operate in accordance with the management agreement in close co-operation with the generators of the patrons to the facility and those obviously are the Ocean Center, Adam’s Mark, Ocean Walk, Adventure Landing and the other businesses in the area as well as being available with the opening of the bridge in a month for people who wish to use the beach and Band Shell. The deal is essentially a restructuring of the debt to lower the interest rate, to permit operational expenses to be paid before the debt, thus insuring that Central Parking or anyone else who in the future would be the operator of the garage, would come in knowing that they could be paid for the cost of operations. In order to accomplish that, the county has provided a guarantee of debt service payments through the use of a subordinate pledge of the tourist development tax. Presently, the tourist development tax is pledged for the Ocean Center block bonds and the requirement of that debt is that tourist development tax revenues have to be at least 140% of the annual debt service of the Ocean Center bonds. This is a subordinate pledge, thus Ocean Center bonds would be paid before any money would be used for the parking garage, but when you consider the amount of the debt service required for the garage, that tourist development tax is only accessed if the revenues are insufficient from the garage. There is a large amount of room in that additional 40% in the coverage requirement that permits that pledge be made without impacting the ability to raise additional capital with a senior pledge of tourist development tax for the Ocean Center. Thus, the monies that you have been told about by our financial advisor and chief financial officer, that are capable of being raised through additional indebtness either on the present two cents or with the enactment of the third cent, are unaffected by this secondary pledge that has been made for support of the parking garage. Now, in fact I think there mau be a positive from this, that is, I think, that if we were going to market for additional Ocean Center bonds with uncertainty surrounding the parking circumstance, that would have a negative impact. With this cloud removed permanently, I think it improves the climate for marketing additional debt for the Ocean Center. Central Parking will continue to manage the garage, but the change is that Rick on the behalf of the county will be administrating the contract. It continues on the same basis, that is, it’s 30-day cancellation by either party, but Central Parking has changed the supervision of the contract to their Orlando office, a fellow by the name of David Lewis will be responsible for the contract. All the present accrued unpaid monies are either being satisfied, compromised or placed in a priority for future payment, which will in no way interfere with payment of operating expenses and debt, so that all we now need is customers. There will be cost at least in the short term, incurred that will have to be funded out of the tourist development tax. However, after the payment of operation and debt, the first monies that are repaid, will be tourist development tax funds advanced for parking garage expenses. Some of the cost that we will be incurring in the closing next week will be coming out of the Ocean Center fund balance, which is essentially tourist development taxes. That fund balance is approximately $3 million now, so there are more than sufficient monies there, that will be able to fund the cost of completing this transaction.

Lori Campbell-Baker: How much money are you talking about?

Frank Gummey: I am not a moneyman, but I think you are probably talking around ½ million dollars.

Big John: Frank, that was absolutely a brilliant dissertation.

Tom Staed: Well, the devil is in the details, and in my wildest imagination can’t imagine that TDC money ought to be spent for purposes that were never intended in fact. The pearled bottom line is that the garage will be self -supporting in the next 120 days or starting then, so I can pass on that. I mean, I will not argue with Mr. Gummey.

Big John: The buck stops here, and to that effect, the Ocean Center now is responsible for parking once again. We never had problems to speak of when the Ocean Center was in charge of parking. When we got the Central deal it was us vs. them, and I think, the folks asked me this morning on the radio if you were going to get a little extra money for administration, I said quite frankly, now this is changed ground and you are overseeing parking, I actually think your job is going to get easier because Mr. Hamilton and Chad both have been inundated with complaints and they have been powerless to do anything about, and so the County Council will set rates, hopefully, we will be very friendly to locals, in times when the parking spaces are all not filled. Most locals can’t stand the garage and as a result, we need to lure them back there. I would recommend an annual pass to go along with beach pass, the park pass, and the super pass. We want to get locals back in. It will be good for Stuart’s business, it will be good for the shops, it will be good for the Board Walk, and it will be good for the beach. So, we need to get locals back in to the garage, that’s the number one. I think the tourist use it because they have to.

Jim Bazemore: Just a question. Of that $3 million kitty we have in reserve now, how much money do you anticipate, to carry over this hump, you’ll have to pull out of that money.

Frank Gummey: The answer is, I really don’t know but I could see, first of all we’re going to have to spend some money on deferred maintenance and I have heard estimates in the range of $20,000 to $100,000 on that. I certainly don’t know which is more accurate but I think that there will be some. We have been operating with approximately $200,00- $300,000 a year deficit. So, the fall is kind of a lean time, so I would say the next few months but if Ocean Walk Village produces the customers that Mr. Anderson hopes to and we hope, you can see that deficit evaporate fairly rapidly.

Big John: Quite frankly, we are going to open the walkover around October 24^{th and you all will be invited to that. The parking garage will be clean that day for the first time in a long time, but it will be spotless, right Mr. Hamilton? We’re going to have it spic and span for October 24th.}

Tom Staed: How do you change Central Parking’s attitude?

Big John: They had no incentive Tom, you have to remember that you are the only person other than the county until just the last couple of months when Mrs. Coto chose to wisely change her mind from general fund to TDT monies. She was actually going to use her discretionary power to keep the garage open. That would have been a mistake. We used TDT instead. Up until then, Central Parking was the only entity taking money out of their pocket and paying for the operation of the garage. And they did that to the tune of about $1.2 million. There was no incentive for them, they were going down a dark hole at this point they are going to get 619 back relatively quickly after an audit.

Tom Staed: Back from where?

Big John: We are going to give it to them.

Frank Gummey: There is presently a debt service reserve of 1.1 million, TransAmerica has agreed to release of those funds, so actually, we will be paying out of that. We do have to fund a half- million- dollar renewal/replacement fund, which partially will come out of that money and partially will come out of TDT money. But that will be there for emergencies but the interest earnings on that will be returned.

Stuart Arp: You are talking about decreased interest rate?

Frank Gummey: The decrease is to 5.8% from 6.45. Debt service payment is down $90,000 per year because of that.

Big John: The mortgage was $12 million something, $12.490.

Frank Gummey: The decision has yet to be made on how rates will be established at the parking garage under the county’s control and obviously the County Council will decide that process. In my discussions with the County Manager, she indicated that she will, most likely recommend that this body have a recommendatory role in the establishment of the rates in the garage.

Big John: Other questions for Mr. Gummey?

Stuart Arp: One thing regarding the rates, we talked about this two years ago, I guess, and they were working on it, but just dropped the ball, the Central Parking. My guests, and Ocean Walk Resort guests staying over night need some sort of in-and-out privileges, because they don’t use it, because they have to pay every time they leave and that gets to be very expensive. So, we need some sort of system where they pay a daily fee and they can come and go and not get charged every time and then I could use it a lot more. Our overnight guests just don’t use it.

 

Big John: Under the new system, you, the Anderson group, the Fairfield group will be advisory to Mr. Hamilton and visited monthly, is that right, to get input and to make sure they are running the course, because the more you like it, the more you’ll encourage the use and the more money it will make.

 

Tom Staed: We got to set those fees with the greatest flexibility with the different kinds of users and you’ve got to market the damn place.

 

Big John: An empty parking space is like a minute on a radio that go without an advertisement, you know. And the name of the game is to see how many cars can you get in, not how much you charge. Sure you’ve got to charge, but name of the game is to have every parking space filled as much as possible.

 

Frank Gummey: And there is another side to that equation, and that is, during the times of high usage, like I noticed that some of the businesses in this area enhance the rate structure.

 

Big John: One of the places that I think we might think of enhancing is the monthly pass, which is $16. I don’t think that it would be unfair to charge monthly people $30, a dollar a day. I don’t think that is an unreasonable price. That will affect Stuart to some degree with his employees and that’ll affect construction people still over there a the Ocean Walk.

 

Stuart Arp: I think that is still a fair amount. $16 a month is nothing.

 

Big John: And we don’t expect that if we give the locals a break, we don’t expect them to think that they are going to get a break during the bike week, because that’s not going to happen. That’s when we have to make some money. OK, anything else on the parking garage?

 

Rick Hamilton: Closing date, when this takes effect?

 

Frank Gummey: First of October?

 

Big John: Yeah. Remember the problem we had with Corvairs and you and I meet afterwards with Sally, because now that this has happened we will not have any more trouble accommodating guests, with certain parking meters.

 

Rick Hamilton: Might be a good time to talk about the bond re-financing.

 

Big John: We don’t need Mr. Gummey any longer, so can we release him?

 

Frank Gummey: Is it time for Charlene? I’ll stay for that in case there are any questions.

 

Charlene Weaver: Mr. Eckert asked me to come. I think he thought originally he was going to be here. Then when I saw Frank walk in, I asked if it was OK for me just to leave. He didn’t seem like that was a good idea. Anyway on the re-financing review on September 18th, we thought we were going to save about $1.6 million. Because of the timing I can’t take any credit for this, but we were able to save $2.035 million. Basically the bottom line to that means that the way we structured it we have reduced debt service requirements to the tune of about $450,000 the first year, $350,000 the second year and about $100,000 after that. And we put the savings more up front, because of the connection with the parking garage, I think that we felt there would be some possibility that we would have to lend some money temporarily.

 

Big John: And it’s still a 13-year deal, doesn’t extend it.

 

Charlene Weaver: Doesn’t extend it, no. We reduced our interest rates from about 5 to 3.

 

Rick Hamilton: 3.2, unbelievable.

 

Charlene Weaver: Yeah, it was a really good deal for us. Good timing as far as the parking garage.

 

Big John: It is short term though. Any questions for Charlene?

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: So what was the final amount that we saved?

 

Charlene Weaver: $2.035 million

 

Big John: I was just on the radio show and I was trying to tell Roland Via from Holly Hill that we are dealing in slightly larger numbers. Any other questions for Charlene?

 

John Masiarczyck: I have something I want to bring up, it may be inappropriate right now, I don’t know.

 

Big John: Anything you got, it’s always appropriate.

 

John Masiarczyck: I was at Southwest Volusia Summit, which is three cities, DeBary, Deltona and Orange City, and got talking about tourist development money for West Volusia and all that. Then we got down to some of the information that I have been able to learn from conversations here and put forward here. And there are two things that I have to formally ask you from that group. One was that the three cities have gotten together and put $10,000 each in a fund and they are going out on a RFP to hire a consultant to study convention and large meeting space in West Volusia. That’s for graduation from high school and other opportunities that may arise. So, they have done that and they are asking if you all would like to be a partner to that. It’s simply a straight out request. One of the requirements from the City of Debary was that we ask everybody whether it’ll be the county the TDC, school board and so forth and so on. What we would like is a commitment of $10,000 it will not be $10,000 because automatically when a third person gets on, the limit on RFP is $30,000 we are going to spend. So as more people join, it will lessen the amount each has to put out. And that’s to study West Volusia as far as tourism, meeting space and so forth. Would DBCC taking an active role down there now in Deltona and also with the UCF now petitioning DBCCC to get land at section 16 were the city hall is for a reference point. And we think there is going to be a lot more need for a large meeting space. We have nothing down there. The largest facility down there will only hold couple hundred people. The point is, we still have a few hills left to build something. And we are thinking about it. We are sold on the location, we are strictly in a two part process, location and need. If that doesn’t go anywhere, it stops right there. If there is a need shown, they’ll move to the next point.

 

Big John: So you are asking this body…

 

John Masiarczyk: This body, if they would formally like to become a partner in that. This TDC is supposed to be a countywide group. When it was formed 18 or so years ago, there was nothing countywide. There was the Ocean Center and that was the idea of a countywide facility. Everyone in this room must recognize the Ocean Center is not a countywide facility any more. It’s strictly a facility that is on the east side of the county. It has no impact or whatever. The Ocean Center and the garage are issues that we don’t even think about there.

 

Big John: What about the Tool concert? That was for the whole county.

 

John Masiarczyk: The Tool concert? How many people from Deltona do you think went there?

 

Big John: It was 32.

 

John Masiarczyk: Was it? Most of them had wet feet, so you could check the prints as they went. But anyway, to make a long story short, as we went through and talked more in depth, it became quite apparent that nobody on the west side of the county realized at this date that that 2% we talked about refinancing and all these wonderful ideas, that they are paying a proportion of that. And when that did come out, that a portion of that is being spent on the Ocean Center, they said, wait a minute, if the TDC is for the county-wide, why don’t they become a partner and that’s how we got into it. With that, the fear of that is that they would take a more active interest as to where their money is spent. Which I am sure, you don’t really want anybody from the west side, but I think it’s better to have them as a partner. It also opens ourselves up to the possibility and it was raised here a couple of times, if we are going to continue to refinance that 2% is going to be carried out for years and years and years and we will never be able to get something established of any magnitude on the west side. So rather than starting an east-west battle, why wouldn’t it be better to work together and possibly then we could look at some creative county-wide refinancing. It would include possible building on the west side. It would be a start for us. But it also could enhance what you may be able to do with this facility over here and make this body truly countywide. Now, whether Rick Hamilton manages that facility over there, that remains to be seen and that could all come out, being played out. But I rather see it played out at this table. I will not be here. I will not be an elected official sitting at this table when this happens. But I thought, if you truly want to make this group advisory nature to the County Council, I think this is a perfect place to drop it rather than starting a whole new group over there. And then start a friction back and forth. It’s going to be a real awakening for many of you at this table, to see our needs over there, but you just imagined 125,000 to 130,000, potentially 175,000 in next ten years over there. There is not a facility over there that holds 200. I mean Gilly’s Bar holds more. There is a dire need for a facility over there. And maybe working through this, I know I’m throwing it at you all at once, but I thought about touching at it before, but this may be a way to get really the county- wide support to get some great things done for us, which we need, but could also in turn help you with what is being done on this side.

 

Big John: Do you know? We are forecasting, if the hotel/motel agrees, if we go another penny, that of course under the leadership of Mr. Staed, who is watching us very closely and if we do that, it would only be for the Halifax area. And then we would carve out your one penny for your area, and your one penny for the southeast should there be other facilities down there that might want to be constructive and other uses for that.

 

John Masiarczyk: And I told them that that was the track that this was taking, but immediately, those people are not deaf, dump and blind. If for 18 years we have been paying 2% to finance this building, why should we have to continue to pay that 2% over here because we are going to have our own 2%.

 

Big John: I don’t want you to get high hopes for that 2 cents.

 

John Masiarczyk: No I don’t. But I am saying that there is a possibility that it is better to have everybody at the table than have a separate group down there.

 

Big John: How should we proceed on this request?

 

John Masiarczyk: Originally the request here this morning was that if you are all interested, it is not that huge of amount with the numbers we talk about in this room or at these meetings, but it would then be a player. You could have somebody sit there and at least be a part of those discussions.

 

Big John: I would hate to embarrass TDC with a request under a million.

 

John Masiarczyk: Well, we could make your share a million.

 

Big John: OK.

 

John Masiarczyk: OK, then we could just build the building and we would not have to meet any more.

 

Big John: I think Mr. Gummey is going to say something terribly legal right now.

 

Frank Gummey: Would you consider placing that on the next agenda?

 

Big John: I think we would have to put in on agenda, because we would not want to be out of order.

 

Sharon Mock: I was just thinking about the strategic plan, Rick Michael’s strategic plan, you know we have another study coming out that really goes more in depth in terms of tourism county wide, and that might be an appropriate place to address that. Because what happened, when we looked at the strategic plan, it really is about marketing and it really didn’t talk about facilities and the goals of the different cities and municipalities. So, Rick and I just kind of talked about it yesterday.

 

John Masiarczyk: We have nothing to market over there is the problem.

 

Sharon Mock: Well that’s what I am saying, it’s up to each area to have some vision for what they see their role in tourism.

 

Big John: Now do you understand why you are sitting at the table? Those kind of remarks.

 

Sharon Mock: Not because I am deaf?

 

Stuart Arp: We don’t have to answer these questions, maybe next time, but I want to know, that 2% that the hotels and motels, what does that mean in terms of dollars that they contributed. And then the other thing is, it’s a tourist development tax. If we are going to build something that is not going to generate tourism, if it is just going to be a community center, then I would be opposed to doing that.

 

Big John: OK. Charlene, the 3 cents in West Volusia, which is the entire West Volusia, North and South, generates $350,000, I’m pretty sure. That’s 3 cents and of course we are talking about 2, so you would have to take two thirds of that. Down in Gilly’s area, southeast generates almost a million.

 

Gilly Aguiar: 950.

 

Big John: So, if you take two thirds of those two numbers, that’s the number you could ask for. I think, that we should put this on next times agenda, if that’s OK with everybody? We should also report that Dana Li has retired from her job on the west side of the county and is overseas at this time, and has had to drop off the TDC, which is causing us to look for a new member from West Volusia. So, any ideas there? We are open for suggestions. I think that Sharon Hughes will apply for the job. Thank you Charlene, thank you Mr. Gummey. You were fabulous! So, know that we are looking for another member.

 

Rick Hamilton: Want this on agenda next time?

 

Big John: Please.

 

John Masiarczyk: Stuart, it would be for economic development purposes and tourism. The only real concerns that has got a lot of them interested there is the fact, that they can’t graduate the students, they can’t do things like that. That was the reason that got everybody together talking. In context with Synergy and those outfits, and Altamonte and Heathrow, they are looking to partner with USF and DBCC and they need a huge place for seminars and training exercises and things like that. So, we did not envision an arena type of set up, we envision conference rooms that could be…

 

Big John: Can that be a part of hotel?

 

John Masiarczyk: It could be a part of a hotel. It could a part of many things. That’s why we wanted to bring in professionals to study it. And we felt that with Rick’s experience and your support if we had it, it would go a long way with people who do this every day. We are novices in it and have no experience.

 

Big John: I met with the leadership, Gene Dexter and Eve Grasso, down southeast Volusia and we talked about the same thing, and we sort of came up with the same thing, because you don’t have enough hotel rooms to parent the get-together place. So, now, there we decided that the way to go would be to a hotel/convention kind of thing, so that you would add rooms, which you would need. Because down there they are mostly condos and timeshares, and they don’t have that many hotel rooms in southeast Volusia. So, if you built this facility, there would be no place for people to stay.

 

Gilly Aguiar: Plus one of the things down there is there is a fraction of people there that believe that it’ll come out of the private sector because of the size of the city and you know, it would be a hotel type of complex, that it would come out of the private sector. So, as far as the two cents, the budgets that you just were speaking of were after the two cents.

 

Big John: No, that was the three cents, I just talked about.

 

Gilly Aguiar: OK, so if they went to the other penny. I get a little worried about trying to put all three things together, because then you will get people trying to go back and get that original two cents.

 

John Masiarczyk: No, they were just bringing that up as a reason to come to this group and that’s what made it county wide, the original two cents. We are not thinking about trying to attack the two cents or getting a portion, we understand it’s to retire this debt. But it is, well, that two cents ability, now you are building a huge addition over here, how does it affect West Volusia? So, there is some talk over there about how that does affect them and would we be better served by having a facility over there? We think that Mr. Staed would come and build a hotel if we had that building over there. Somebody might decide to invest in that and partner with that group. We are in informative stages and longing an opportunity to work with you. I could see in that meeting, without naming names, I could see immediately the wheels turning, and I said, Oh, this just setting itself up for an east-west battle, which this county does not need. It’s better if we are all working together on this. There is some friction and you know, with the little tourist development authorities and all that, and I think it would be better on some major projects to stay here.

 

Big John: Just know, that the tourist development bunches, you know, the CVB’s, actually Eve, Renee and Sharon, Sharon is like a mother superior, you know, and helps everybody. In spite of what Mrs. Northey thinks, they work together in unison.

 

John Masiarczyk: I have never talked to Mrs. Northey, I have no input from her.

 

Big John: So, on the agenda next meeting: we will look for someone from West Volusia for another member and Mr. Hamilton, have we covered everything on the parking garage and refinancing?

 

Rick Hamilton: Approval of minutes.

 

Big John: OK, let’s do that first. Do I have a motion to approve the minutes?

 

The minutes were approved with motion from John Masiarczyk and seconded by Tom Staed.

 

Big John: OK, let’s move on. Mr. Wachtel.

 

Jim Wachtel: First of all I would like to introduce my partner, Dana Smith, we have been working for the past couple of weeks developing these programs and the schemes, so this is a joint effort that we have been doing.

 

Big John: For all of you who understand human nature, we are going to get, I hope, a fairly good product from Mr. Wachtel this year because he is a Notre Dame fan and right now we are on a winning streak. So, as long as that continues, the work should remain good.

 

Jim Wachtel: Except that I don’t work on Saturday afternoons. First thing I want to do, we are going to pass some of these out. Through Stuart’s sub-committee, and the C.H. Johnson report, there have been a lot of numbers floating around that identify how much square footage we need to build and what type for the expansion. The first thing I want to do is to recap that. Out of Stuart’s committee, the Phase I, that was suggested was the 100,000 square feet of exhibition space, and the 40,000 square feet of meeting room space. In addition to that there has to be pre-function space and soft spaces around it which we and the Johnson Group have identified at about 35%, so we have put that in there. And then the Convention and Visitors Bureau, when we anticipated moving their offices to this and in conversation with Sharon, a week or so ago, they are looking for ten to twelve thousand square feet. We put that in here in Phase I. Phase II is a ballroom.

 

Big John: Excuse me, let the minutes reflect that Mr. Cameron has finally made it, 43 minutes late.

 

Gilly Aguiar: I went there first (referring to Chamber of Commerce).

 

Big John: Let the minutes also reflect that obviously Mr. Anderson listens to the Bernier Show, because I had him play over the air last Friday, because we have been trying to get him or his representative to come to this meeting and he is finally here. So we are glad to have you, Mr. Anderson.

 

Jim Wachtel: Phase II is the ballroom and the kitchen, which is a total net of 40,000 square feet, again with 35% for soft space. And then something that was not discussed, I believe, at the sub-committee level, was the fact that the Johnson report had recommended a total build-out of 145,000 square feet on the exhibition space. So, I could put an extra 45,000 square feet in as a Phase III, if that’s the way we want to go in the future. So, Phase III would be 45,000 square feet of exhibition space. Following that is a breakdown of each phase and a certain amount of percentage allocated to restrooms, mechanical space, storage space and pre-function space for each of the net areas, which is going to help us when we get into the cost estimate of these phases. I have also identified items that will need to be taken in consideration during the site development; utilities, landscaping, parking, roadways and sidewalks that sort of thing. As we go to Phase I, with the amount of square footage that it needs, it does not fill out the whole site, so we are able to put some parking on the site and I have estimated about 200 cars that would still be available on that site even after we put the Phase I on there. We have also looked at the site to the south of the parking lot that the county owns and I am not sure of the extent of the site, but it looks like it would get about 200 cars in there.

 

Big John: You mean on those two blocks? You get roughly how many, Rick?

 

Rick Hamilton: About six.

 

Jim Wachtel: 600?

 

Gilly Aguiar: If you don’t have to landscape it.

 

Jim Wachtel: Does that go all the way to the cemetery?

 

Big John: No.

 

Rick Hamilton: It’s Wild Olive to Oleander, and Oleander to Hollywood.

 

Big John: That goes almost to Main Street. Now there are some out parcels, but on the easterly block, it goes all the way to Main Street. West street block, it stops short of the stores on Main Street and there are a couple out parcels, which we will have to pick up.

 

Tom Staed: This is fine for this purpose that we got on the sketches the tentative numbers of parking spaces.

 

Jim Wachtel: So, we got on this tabulation for each of the three phases, I believe that’s where the committee was after the last meeting. Am I correct, Stuart, with the 100,000 square feet.

 

Stuart Arp: Yes. That’s a big office for Sharon though, 12,000 square feet..

 

Sharon Mock: When we talked about the number, I didn’t know in terms of how the building comes together, whether you need to have separate restrooms, if you had to have a kitchen area, I don’t know how that all works together. And then, the mail facility is another question. If the mail facility doesn’t move, we don’t have to do storage here, and then the number goes way down.

 

Big John: No, in order to get more harmony between the CVB and the Ocean Center, we are going to share restrooms.

 

Jim Wachtel: This time what we have done rather than showing some sketches that you can’t look at, we started working in model form, so that we can get an idea of this looks like and how big it is. We invite you all to come up and take a look at it. Obviously, these are the two parcels that you have and they go all the way down to Main or to the back of the buildings that are there. This is our existing facility and the existing roads that are here. This is one of the schemes that we had previously about how the space was going to be. What we have done is develop three different kinds of schemes of how all of this space can fit on here in a phase fashion. When we deal with other buildings, you have a lot of little small spaces that you have opportunity to push and shove, that sort of thing. We don’t have that here. We have 100,000 square feet of exhibition space, primarily in a square and 30,000 square feet of ballroom and some meeting rooms that we can manipulate. So we got big blocks of space that we are trying to work on the site, so it sort of limits exactly how these things can go, but there are some opportunities to do that.

About six months ago, when we talked about four different schemes of the campus concept, two story concept, coming across Hollywood, the one that everybody seemed to go for was to build everything on this site without the campus concept, probably without the two story level, trying to get everything on one story. So, that’s what we tried to do, and show the different phases. Phase I being meeting rooms, the first scheme was to build this and to build a lobby cover in front of the existing entry with the pre-function gallery and then the exhibition space in the back. These spaces here we could use for parking with some opportunity for loading on the sides. Again, this is 40,000 square feet of meeting rooms and 100,000 square feet of exhibition space with a pre-function gallery coming back and tying this to the existing facility, so that you have this function in here.

 

Big John: Why is it that it’s got holes in it?

 

Jim Wachtel: That’s a potential loading area or another entry for meeting rooms if you have meeting people parking here, they could come in here rather than walking all the way around.

 

Big John: And is this that fancy do?

 

Jim Wachtel: That’s the fancy turn around that will be developed. I’ve got some drawings, but I want to go through the models first, for each of you to take.

Phase II would be built right in here, this becomes the ballroom, the kitchen and it’s function. Again, we have the loading in this area, so the mechanical, the deliveries and the loading for the kitchen work right here. The pre-function space, restrooms, and the meeting go right across the pre-function gallery. We developed another entry point here, so you can have access from the exterior and use that ballroom totally as a separate entity. Again, that does not have to be build right-a-way, you build that, and you got a parking lot and then when the money comes and you want to build, this stays intact, move the parking and you put the building in.

 

Big John: And where are you going to put Sharon at?

 

Jim Wachtel: I haven’t quite figured that out yet. We thought about developing a second floor over some of these meeting rooms. That would be an easy, out of the way spot, but close to everything in there. And over the meeting rooms we might develop some two-story, three dimensional spaces that have offices, and the ballroom. It just becomes more grand, three-dimensional space.

 

Sharon Mock: Rick and I might want to get together and talk about how we consolidate all that meeting space into one central area. It would make more sense than have it spread all over, because when we are working on meetings and conventions with Rick’s staff and my staff…

 

Big John: Actually, if you want to know something, we are adding 40,000, right. We had 21,000. If we gave Sharon one of those upstairs, she and you would be right next door to each other.

 

Gilly Aguiar: That would be a good way to use some of the old space and keep it very contiguous and then if you do go up then you might be able to have more exhibition space and meeting room over here, and we would have to do something with these rooms anyway. It might be a way to retrofit.

 

Jim Wachtel: If we go to the Phase III and want to expand the exhibition space, the exhibition space expands directly to the west. At this time we have to start acquiring land and moving across there, but that’s Phase III, and it’s a long term goal and it may never come about.

 

Jim Bazemore: The footprint right now, except Phase III, is already there, right?

 

Jim Wachtel: That’s correct. It stays east of Hollywood and does not take into account this land.

 

Tom Staed: How many parking spaces does that eliminate?

 

Jim Wachtel: 450-460. That’s what is in here. So, you are going to have to replace that plus add the parking for the new space.

 

Big John: Questions?

 

John Masiarczyk: With the redevelopment, with the parking, how much space in the garage can be utilized to off-set the additional land we have to purchase for parking, or another parking garage or whatever you choose.

 

Big John: Probably John, I would think, we would be naïve, if we didn’t think that a parking garage would go there in the empty space that we have.

 

Tom Staed: The present facilities will be utilized for parking, so with any addition, you’ve got lot of parking spaces.

 

Big John: And the parking over here gives you the Main Street Bridge and the outs to Halifax and Peninsula, which makes it more convenient to get to West. Sharon Hughes has joined us. She is from the west side of the county, Hampton Inn, and she has applied to be on this board from West Volusia, and so, if the County Council sees fit, on the third, she will join us.

 

Sharon Hughes: I’m sorry, I’m late, but I was given a wrong spot.

 

Gilly Aguiar: Another good philosophy for a parking garage here, or really having a strong parking presence, is the redevelopment of Main Street and to be able to use that facility and make money with it on an ongoing basis parking along all of this redevelopment over here. Ultimately it would be beautiful, with a garage here and garage here and it would take the pressure off the residential area and would put all the parking in between your facilities, the redeveloping area and the Boardwalk.

 

Jim Wachtel: On the past Tuesday, I met in Peter’s office, with Rick Prioletti and Marion D’Avian. We were on a conference call with Principles of Rich and Associates in Michigan. Rich & Associates is on a contract with City of Daytona Beach for parking studies and master planning of that, and we a discussing the scope of the master planning for the Main Street area parking impact. And we are going to continue that over the next six months or a year, because in my opinion, we have the Boardwalk redevelopment that is on horizon, we have this development that is on horizon, and these are two 300-pound gorillas that are really going to dominate where parking can go in here. And if it is not done properly, we could put in a situation where Main Street would die. And we want to put it into an area, where Main Street is going to thrive, so we want to look at all of these generators in concert so that we can place number and location and circulation to and from the parking garages in the most strategic point in the whole area. So, that is a part of the study that will be coming up in the future and this facility and the parking that we’re displacing will be a part of that study also. This is scheme one.

 

Tom Staed: You have another potential area of development near the theater that is another major need of a parking facility.

 

Jim Wachtel: This one is just a different look at this, again meeting rooms here, that sort of wrap around the south side and along Auditorium. It’s covered, maybe with a skylight. It’s a focal point that people can see from both sides. We moved the exhibition space closer so you don’t have as much transfer back and forth. Again, we have storage, mechanical, loading on the sides on the wings here, and the meeting room wraps around farther to the West on the South side. Again, you have area for parking over here. This has a turn-around here and we could develop a turn-around here, so that’s consistent with all of the schemes. When we go to Phase II, and we want to put a ballroom in, it builds right in there. And now we have a symmetrical building giving to both sides, we can still see this focus point and it comes out into this area.

 

Jim Bazemore: That ballroom now, that curves around, is it an L-shape ballroom.

 

Jim Wachtel: Well, the ballroom will be in here with a kitchen and the service area in the back.

 

Conversation across the table about L-shape and the consensus was “we don’t like L’s”.

 

Gilly Aguiar: On the loading docks now, is this really addressed enough room for the trucks to pull in and be there. Is that under cover, loading docks?

 

Jim Wachtel: The loading docks may be covered or may be open. There is amount of space that needs to be identified for that. It’s got to be substantial.

 

Gilly Aguiar: One thing that we have to look at is where will they park the rigs.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: Where do they go now?

 

Big John: The Civic Center.

 

Tom Staed: You’ve got to get the city absolutely in on this parking issue.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: Myriam is going to do the traffic flow and Rich & Associates are going to do the parking aspect, right.

 

Jim Wachtel: Right, and we are going to be working together on that.

 

Tom Staed: This is a good plan here, but before you set on it, you’ve got to give this parking layout, you’ve got to get City of Daytona to give their view of, is it enough parking, is it going to work, because to build the thing, I think you would have to build immediately a parking garage, that holds fifteen-sixteen hundred people with the thing or it’s not going to work. And you also have to get a traffic flow in and out of that thing. We have been criticized for the past 25 years on our present structure, because when it’s full, getting in and out is hard.

 

Jim Wachtel: These factors of 10% storage and 5% pre-function are just factors at this point. We have to go through and do a very thorough programming job to deal with, how many trucks are you going to have, and how much space do they really need, how much is in storage, what kind of facilities do you need, nothing designed, but how many automated loading docks are you going to have, are we going to have ten trucks, five trucks, twenty trucks, what are we going to do. So, that programming needs to take place. We have taken the same amount of space for restrooms and storage and pre-function for the ballroom as we did for the meeting room. Well, the ballroom is one big space and all the circulation takes place within it. The meeting rooms are smaller spaces. How many do we have? Do we have 50 foot deep, or 40 foot deep, or 70 foot deep, or a combination of all of them? And maybe have a lot of circulation space out side of that? So, these factors are going to change. We need to get into that detail, and that’s our next step. And the second part of that is traffic and parking and the master planning of the area that is going to have to take place with the City of Daytona Beach. After we do those programming efforts, then we come back to this point.

 

Jim Bazemore: Jim, please raise my comfort level as you speak, you are going to be working here and here, all kind of combinations, who is going to run the show. You are going to run everything, in other words you started it and you are going to finish it, turn key?

 

Jim Wachtel: Yeah.

 

Jim Bazemore: It’s your baby. If it goes wrong, the good things as well as bad things are yours too.

 

Jim Wachtel: Yeah, you want my card?

 

Tom Staed: How do you get to the dollars required until you get to the cost of parking, which could include land that you have to purchase, or it could include land that you have to take? This thing, Phase I, would not work without more parking.

 

Jim Wachtel: When we came in this morning, Charlene asked us how we’d build a $100,000,000 project for $40,000,000, and I think that’s what you are asking.

 

Tom Staed: And I am very supportive of this whole process, but I don’t want to jump off the page and think that we are talking about forty million when we are really talking about sixty million.

 

Gilly Aguiar: Especially when we get into the parking garages, now with the surface parking that is available, but one thing you have to realize, Tom, is no matter which way we go, that land is being used of a building, period. As these studies are going on it’s OK to be looking at this as our package, because those studies have to be done, but this land is going to be used regardless.

 

Tom Staed: I am very comfortable with whatever process you use on that. Both of them have some plusses and minuses. If we can straighten out the banquet facilities on this one it could work.

 

Jim Wachtel: Let me just say, that the parking issue obviously is a thorn, and there may be a public entity that builds parking for this and charges for that. It may be a private entity that comes in and builds a parking garage and charges for this. Or maybe grants from the State, we don’t know, that has to be a part of this study with Rich & Associates about how much is needed, where is it needed and how is it going to be operated and paid for.

 

Stuart Arp: I agree with Tom, we’ve got to settle the parking issue, but I don’t think that it is going to be that difficult. You’ve got the property already, the Ocean Center, city has the lot that they lease to us, but they have always talked about doing a garage, so we got the empty space, so we don’t have to acquire more land or tear down buildings necessarily, or whatever. So, we just got to figure out, who is going to build it. Who is going to fund that, or whatever, but we’ve got the real estate.

 

Tom Staed: How many spaces do you have here, 400?

 

Jim Wachtel: It is 280.

 

Tom Staed: You need 280?

 

Jim Wachtel: Yeah.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: Is that lot filled now most of the time?

 

Stuart Arp: Sometimes. It depends on what’s going on. Sometimes it’s a third sometimes it’s full.

 

Jim Bazemore: How about giving us the third section, then we know what we are talking about.

 

Jim Wachtel: The third section, moves this away from the existing building a little bit, again it puts a covered lobby in the center. A silver bullet like the airport has.

 

Gilly Aguiar: Looks like a power plant or something. A Disney cruise ship.

 

Jim Wachtel: Again, this is the meeting room space with the gallery. The exhibition space would go into the back around here. We are showing it to go around here, but more than likely, will be just straight across, the same 100,000 square feet of space. Parking in this area. This is very similar to the first scheme, except that we moved this away and got a sort of open lobby, a sky-lit lobby in here. The ballroom again goes into this area. More than likely would be straight across the exhibition space in there, with the entries on the side, the gallery going across, and then into the exhibition space. The Phase III, again goes in to the back of the scheme, over the roadway. It entails turnarounds on both sides.

 

Jim Bazemore: Which one do you like best?

 

Jim Wachtel: I like this element the best here. I like the meeting room that comes around here, because I think it gives more exposure along the southern edge for more people to come in. And the exhibition space up in the center a little bit more. That does make probably this a little bit more L-shape, but we can work that out. I like the way this comes off the front, this comes off the front, and the other one has the meeting rooms down the side. I like that a lot. This side we have sort of identified as service side, loading docks, mechanical space, transformers and emergency generators, all that kind of stuff. And this becomes the peoples’ space, relating over to the Main Street. And what I really would love to see, is a boulevard, right in here, accentuating the Peabody, our turnaround and maybe shops on one side or the other with some outdoor cafes tying the Main Street to this point and coming in through this parking garage. That’s what I’d really like to see. I’d like to see this closed off and have that come through there and that becomes a real focal point for the Peabody, the Ocean Center, and back down to Main Street, but that is way in the future.

 

Tom Staed: I think people like Stuart, Sharon, and the convention people need to study those three and figure out which one is the most practical from an operational stand point. That’s where I am. I like the second one I think, the best, but I am not a pro in this thing.

 

Jim Wachtel: One of the reasons that we have this presentation here today is that we get these kinds of comments, because these are just three ideas that we had on this. And if there are any other overall comments like that I think it’s great. We need to go back and give you one idea of how this is going to work and use that as the basis for the further studies.

 

Tom Staed: And I would think that the city has to be brought in immediately and determine how they are going to sign off on the traffic flow and on the parking, because there has been a huge amount of criticism of present Ocean Center about the ingress and egress of people when it’s jammed.

 

Gilly Aguiar: I think that’s what’s going on with the study, isn’t it. The city is involved.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: Now, is it their study, and we’re kind of tacking on to it? That was Rick’s presentation last time that he was raising money for this study that he was going to do anyway. And we wanted to make sure that our aspects were covered. Where does that stand?

 

Jim Wachtel: That is still the goal at this point; to have that be their study. They are looking for other monies through state economic development, monies that are available. We’ve got Giavy Associates to study traffic flow.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: Are you talking about two different studies? When you say we’ve got Giavy, are you talking about Rick Prioletti?

 

Jim Wachtel: No, they are on our team.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: Didn’t we decide at the last meeting, that if Rick is doing something that we tag on to what they’re doing? I just want to make sure that we are not doing something to duplicate.

 

Jim Wachtel: Rick is contracting with Rich and Associates for a parking study.

 

Jim Bazemore: Which includes us.

 

Jim Wachtel: Which includes the Ocean Center. That will be one of the generators of the parking study, that Rich and Associates has to study. We have always had Giavy and Associates as part of our team to study traffic flow and the traffic impacts that this effort is going to make. So, the traffic patterns, getting to and from that Giavy will study, getting in and out of the parking areas that the Rich and Associates will recommend, will work hand in hand.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: But isn’t Rick Prioletti doing the same. That’s what he told us last time and that’s why we decided that we did not want to be duplicating, we wanted to make sure that it was one project. So, I am confused.

 

Jim Bazemore: Jim, I will be looking right at you from start to finish. So, understand you are going to have to coordinate a lot of people. This is too big to drop a ball anywhere down the road.

 

Big John: Now the mayor is very shy, but he wants to ask something.

 

John Masiarczyk: I was just saying, we keep talking about this, we keep talking about partners, we are talking about possible entrepreneurs, but you’ve got a huge space there. Have you thought about parking? I just suggested below, and he suggested above. Have you thought about parking above that convention space?

 

Big John: If you have to go up anyway, and if you need land, why wouldn’t you go over this thing instead of over Stuart’s place? Stuart is already there. This will be the construction site, why wouldn’t you go over this and then the person parking in that garage would go right downstairs and they wouldn’t have to walk in the rain or anything.

 

Jim Wachtel: First of all the cost.

 

Big John: Why is it more expensive to build on the top of that than on top of Stuart’s hall?

 

Rick Hamilton: We looked at it and we did this garage. It’s making the first floor exhibit space, actually extra exhibit space, nothing fancy and was told that the engineers and architects on that garage due to the footage and everything involved and live safety codes, that is almost twice per square footage cost than what you can build free standing.

 

Lori Campbell-Baker: Is that what you found?

 

Jim Wachtel: Well, I don’t know about that. When you have a parking garage that’s about fifty feet, we are talking about a fifty-foot height in here, I’ve got to build a ramp that goes up fifty feet rather than what’s over our parking garage now is about 15 feet.

 

Big John: No it’s not. It must be 25-30 feet minimum.

 

Jim Wachtel: So, it’s 25 feet, it’s not 50 feet over this thing, plus you look at the Ocean Center now and the arena, it’s column free, it’s wide open. And that’s going to be pretty much the way it is in here. It’s going to be wide open. You put a parking garage on top of it you are going to have a column every fifteen feet in both directions. We talked about it under ground too. That’s actually more feasible. So, that may be a possibility. As we look at this footage that may be a possibility, because now you’ve got a solid deck that you are putting all these columns in to and put an exhibition space on top of it.

 

Tom Staed: The water table is about twelve feet, maybe eleven.

 

Big John: You might put one story in.

 

Jim Wachtel: Right, we have looked at that. And I think that is much more feasible than up above.

 

Rick Hamilton: Before Jim proceeds with the layout for the next phase, I want to you folks to really look at what he has got in the model. I am having to disagree with everyone that I’ve heard say anything in the room.. I like the first concept better, because of it’s outside design, because of its curves and it goes with the existing building. There are no hard, straight angles in the existing building and both scheme two and scheme three that he is showing you are straight lines and hard angles. So, before he proceeds, I want you to be sure to look at that. Number one is much more compatible from the outside, so I wanted to bring this to your attention.

 

Stuart Arp: There is no question that it is a sexier looking building but I just think that the exhibit space is too far away.

 

Rick Hamilton: What I am saying, I mean, he can incorporate…

 

Jim Wachtel: What you are going to see in two weeks is going to be a combination of all these.

 

Big John: We don’t like this smoke stack. This isn’t the Queen Mary.

 

Jim Bazemore: Jim, do you like it?

 

Jim Wachtel: I like it.

 

Gilly Aguiar: I think Stuart is right as far as trying to get these as close as possible. Maybe the meeting space would be there and you could put the banquet facility here.

 

Jim Wachtel: There would be a formal lobby here, separate from the banquet rooms. So, in order to get from the meeting rooms to the exhibit area, you come past it. So you could be having a banquet here and something going on in the arena and separate the crowds.

 

Rick Hamilton: No disrespect to Jim and Dana, but the smokestacks are for architects.

 

Big John: That’s right. They build smokestacks for ego busters. So, the architects can say, so those dummies, I got them to build a smokestack in.

 

Sharon Mock: How many feet is that?

 

Jim Wachtel: This is about 300 feet.

 

Gilly Aguiar: I like the second one, because the meeting space is attachable to the whole thing to go to the food. I really believe like Stuart said earlier, that this needs to be closer to this.

 

Jim Wachtel: This is used to generate some comments, so, please don’t accept this as a piece of architecture yet, because we haven’t really studied yet. Rick likes curves and we would have some curves in there to make this the same and the materials would be the same. But it’s more to get an idea of three-dimensionally, how these things stack together and how they work.

 

Big John: Is there anyone who likes the smokestack? OK (no takers).

 

Bob Davis: One other consideration is that Stuart, Hamilton and me get together and look at the design and the way this is put together. If it becomes too far away and more staff is needed then more dollars are spent in operation. And Rick needs to be involved in that as what is more feasible in working staff in an exhibit hall and stuff like that. I think that needs to be looked at.

 

Big John: Bob is saying that we want to look at this at operational cost. If one of the designs will cost a lot more, we need to know that. Can we see the scheme two again? We like the scheme two except we have to put some curves for Mr. Hamilton.

 

Jim Wachtel: Here are copies of the plans for each of these schemes.

 

Big John: Yes, we need to wrap this up. John has to leave, so we need copies.

 

Jim Wachtel: Again, we did pass out the cost estimate of the three phases. Again generic cost $34 to $35 million for Phase I, $10 million for Phase II for just the ballroom, and another nine or nine and half for exhibition room. Overall a $50 million dollar project.

 

Big John: If we do Phase I, we need to have money for parking.

 

Jim Wachtel: If you do any of them, you have to have money for parking.

 

Big John: Right now, we have another meeting scheduled. Madam, would you mind telling us who are you?

 

From the audience: I am Jan Edwards from Time Warner.

 

Big John: What are you doing here?

 

Jan Edwards: Education. I heard you on the radio.

 

Big John: We have another meeting scheduled October 9 at the Ocean Center. And I also would like to invite you all to park on the little parking lot on the same side of the building.

 

Rick Hamilton: Along the South loading dock is where you are supposed to park.

 

Big John: So, we are scheduled at 9 o’clock on the ninth, is that good for everyone?

Ms. Mock?

 

Sharon Mock: I am out of town, but I can send my input.

 

Big John: OK. Is everybody else going to be here? And you’ll be intimate with the planning department of Daytona Beach between now and then?

 

John Masiarczyk: Can we also have some maps like we did before? Some of us may not know all the streets. I think that we should have a permanent map around with us, that show all the street names.

 

Big John: Maybe we could send it to them in advance? Is there any other business to come before the board?

 

Jim Bazemore: Move to adjourn.

 

The meeting was adjourned at 10:30 a.m.

 

 

back to county council home page

 

Comments or questions?
E-mail the

Volusia County, Florida.